(Excerpt of an interview with Tony Martin, Georgetown, Guyana, July 2012, based mainly on two of his books, ‘Literary Garveyism’ and ‘Race First’. Dr Tony Martin was born in Trinidad, and studied in the UK (Gray’s Inn) and the USA. He read for his MA and Ph. D. in History at Michigan State University, and was Emeritus Professor of Africana Studies at Wellesley College. Martin, who died on January 17, 2013, has authored fourteen books.)

PP: Marcus Garvey was a controversial figure in history, wearing many hats in his lifetime. But he wore those hats with flair and conviction. He visited Guyana, at least once,

a very long time ago. I’m making this connection because I would like to raise a hypothetical question: If Garvey were to visit Guyana now, what are some of the issues he would take umbrage with?

TM: It would be difficult to say, but I could better deal with that question if I were to first summarise what Garvey was about. He was a great Pan-African leader. He arose, so to speak, at a time in history when there were many great racial and national movements around.   Like Gandhi in India, the National Congress in Africa, Sun Yat-sen of China, the Irish were struggling for their freedom against the British, so Garvey was in this context. He built the largest Pan-African movement in history…

PP:  Pan-African? Meaning?

TM: Meaning a movement of African people spread around the globe. He had branches in over forty countries, numbering in excess of 1200 branches around the world, with millions of members…

PP: With branches also in Guyana.

TM: There were about seven branches in Guyana; I have a listing of all the Universal Negro Improvement Association and African Communities League [UNIA] branches in my book, ‘Race First’. And Guyana was ranked Number Nine outside the United States. Of the seven branches in Guyana, most of them were clustered around the Georgetown area; like Charlestown, Lacytown, with one or two further afield like in Parika.
So, Garvey’s basic philosophy was about uplifting African people. African people everywhere about that time, around the First World War, were very much oppressed. There were two countries in the entire African continent that had even a semblance of self-governance: One was Ethiopia, and the other was Liberia. In the Caribbean, there was Haiti; but Haiti was overrun by the United States, so, by the 1920s, Haiti was actually a protectorate of the United States…

PP: Something that people forget.

TM: Yes. Haiti and the Dominican Republic were both protectorates of the United States.

PP: Another interesting bit of information. So it means…

TM: That the entire African race was lacking in self-government.     So that was the basic context in which Garvey arose. And his Movement was supposed to empower African people; to help them reclaim a sort of pride in themselves, and to regain some level of self-government. So this is a sort of background to maybe address your question of how Garvey would have reacted to Guyana today…

PP: Based on his philosophy and work; the things you just said, How would he have reacted?

TM: He would have seen some progress, of course. In 1920, when his Movement was at its height, most African people in Guyana would have had very little say in the Legislature pertaining to this country. E.A. Fredericks was probably the first African Guyanese to be elected to the Legislature.  He was somewhat like Garvey; a campaigner for racial upliftment. But the mass of African people would not have had a say in government.
But now Guyana is an Independent country, and that’s no longer the case. So, obviously, there was some progress. But of course, in Guyana, like in so many other countries, and in the Caribbean, there has been progress. Some people will argue that the progress isn’t complete, and so on, but, basically, there has been progress.

PP: Garvey was born after Emancipation of enslaved people in the British West Indies; that period signalled the end of the struggle for some people. But it was also the beginning of the struggle of other people like Garvey, so he came in that context. What was he lobbying for after we had gained Emancipation?

TM: Emancipation came to what was then the British West Indies in 1838; Garvey was born in 1887; August 17, 1887, which makes August 17, 2012, the 125th birth anniversary of Garvey.

PP: So, this is a timely discussion.

TM: Yes, for people who like Garvey, it is a big event. I myself will be in Jamaica helping to celebrate the event. So you are right; the end of slavery was the end of one part of the struggle; basic freedom was achieved. There was much to be desired; it was freedom but not political power, no economic power, and the British and other European powers began to put all sorts of obstacles in the way of the newly emancipated Africans, maintaining them in a situation as close as possible to slavery.
But, nevertheless, there was a great struggle; many of the Africans in the Caribbean emigrated: Some went to Panama to help build the Panama Canal and railways there; some went to Costa Rica to work on the banana plantations; some went to Cuba to plant more sugar. Interestingly enough, others went to the United States to do a variety of things. Many became seamen, working on British ships sailing around the world. So they tried, and they began to educate themselves. Some of them became highly successful. There were many interesting intellectual figures that arose in that era. With the advent of Garvey, many Africans in the Caribbean and in Guyana began to realise that they belong to this huge Diaspora, and they began to realise that in Africa itself, things were even worse than in the Caribbean…

PP: News of these happenings in the Diaspora was being filtered down to us in the Caribbean…

TM: Yes, I’ll come to that in a while when we talk about my other book, ‘Literary Garveyism’. But, back to what I was saying. It was after slavery ended in the Caribbean that Africa was really overrun by European imperialism; what historians call the scramble for Africa. The world’s largest continent was almost totally overrun; conquered by Europe.

PP: I’m thinking of Walter Rodney’s ‘How Europe Underdeveloped Africa’.

TM: Paradoxically enough, now it was the Africans in the Caribbean, who, like Garvey, politically conscious and active, began to see the need to agitate on behalf of freedom in Africa itself; and that became a motivating factor for the Pan-African Movement.
(To respond to this author, either call him on (592) 226-0065 or send him an email: oraltradition2002@yahoo.com)